Siegel: Welcome back in, folks. Good to have you with us, as we get back into the conversation for another big hour. And really delighted to have with us a gentleman who is one of the great experts on terrorism among our thinkers in this country on that subject. He's been dealing with it for years and has made a commitment to this field, Steven Emerson is with us. And Mr. Emerson, thanks for being here at a late hour, and thank you for that. How are you sir?

Emerson: Bit tired, but sort of animated by what I saw was a really alarming and very disappointing presentation by the president at the mosque today, the Islamic Society of Baltimore, not only the fact that he chose that mosque that has been tied to terrorism, but his comments were so inappropriate that I felt that he was reading a script from the Muslim Brotherhood.

Siegel: Well I agree with you. And I can only tell you that we are on internationally, so for some people this is the middle of the day, who are hearing you on the other side of the world, thankfully, through the Internet. But let me get to some of this, because he went to Baltimore, the Islamic Center [sic] of Baltimore. And we know that there have been people connected to this mosque who are bad guys – Council on American-Islamic Relations, unnamed co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation case, one of the groups. And we know that there is in that mosque support for radical Islamic terrorists, both financially and ideologically. They condemn homosexuals, which is something that he worked hard to try to get acceptance for here. I find that ironic. He looks the other way in Iran and other places, even some of the people of the Islamic mosque in Baltimore, looks the other way there, but condemns the Americans. I mean it's stunning the way he has this double standard. Islamic people can do anything, but Americans cannot, or other Americans cannot.

Emerson: Well yeah, he (UI word) the you know the Crusades [which he specifically tied to..] Christianity, but then in his speech today he said that ISIS had nothing to do with Islam. And basically he said that Islamic terrorism had nothing to do with Islam. I mean it's like saying that Islam has nothing to do with Islam. It was the most you know I would say stereotypical speech that could have been written by the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which is a front group for Hamas, a group, a description that is not mine, but a term that was applied by the FBI, after the largest Hamas money laundering case in the early 2000 period, in which the Council on American-Islamic Relations was designated as an unindicted co-conspirator. He used all these, the statements to claim that there was no connection at all [between Islam and terrorism[. And then he endorsed some of the most outrageous exaggerations about hate crimes, including the [clear implication of anti-Muslim racism to the ].....a tragic murder of three Muslims in North Carolina earlier this year. No evidence whatsoever has ever linked the murderer, a deranged individual, to any hate crime. In fact on his Facebook page he actually issued Likes for the SPLC, the Southern Poverty Law Center, and the ACLU. He never --[and his wife testified to this fact and no one in law enforcement found any evidence in any of his writings]--issued any or evinced any hatred toward Muslims. And yet ... Muslims look for any type of slight [that they interpret without any evidence as anti Muslim bias]. They issued a report in California on bullying against Muslim students. What was the scientific evidence and methodology for that? Theirs. And I can tell you that they never issued any scientific or -, any proof for any of the evidence. They just [piled on] the whole notion of [national school] bullying. You know I remember a couple of years ago when they were issuing reports about hate crimes, they said there was an egg thrown at a Muslim car. Can you explain that to me? [Host laughs.] I mean this is the type of hate crimes that they're issuing. And by the way, hate crimes against Muslims are a quarter of the hate crimes against Jews, and a tenth of the hate crimes against African Americans. Why didn't he mention that? Number two, when he was talking about anti-Semitism, or hate crimes, or attacks against Jews, you know he said you know – well there was anti-Semitism in France. But today there was an Israeli 19-year-old cadet who was knifed to death by a Palestinian terrorist in Israel, [he] didn't mention her at all. That was the 30^th Israeli knifed to death in the last four months, no mention of that at all. That's Palestinian terrorism. And when he says that ISIS has no connection or that Islamic terrorism has no connection, how does he explain the existence of [up to ] 52 Islamic terrorist groups that are on the FBI or the Treasury lists of Islamic terrorist groups that have to be sanctioned? Are they not connected to Islamic terrorism?

He didn't put any onus or responsibility on the Islamic groups in the United States that are the enablers of Islamic terrorism. What do I mean by that? He said we're not at war with Islam. That's true. But you know who's saying that? It's the groups that he invites to the White House. It's CAIR; it's MPAC. And I know these acronyms don't mean much to people listening, but we follow them. These are the Islamic groups that were derived from the Muslim Brotherhood, that believe and espouse the view, and openly, and we've recorded it, that say – there's a war by the U.S. against Islam, and [they] say to American Muslims " don't talk to the FBI, because they're only involved, only interested in trapping you." What message does that say to young Muslims? That says to them the U.S. is an enemy, and the jump from there is [obvious] – take out action against them [the enemies of Islam]; [[He] never addressed that whatsoever.

Siegel: It's stunning, the point you raised about hate acts against synagogues and Jewish people. You know it's 57 percent, and with people of the Islamic faith it's about 14 percent. Never says a word about the anti-Semitism.

Emerson: Or worldwide, if you look at the statistics issued by the National Counterterrorism Center, of the, all international terrorist attacks, on average for the past 10 years, anywhere from 57 to 75 percent of all international terrorist attacks have been carried out by Islamic terrorist groups.

Siegel: No that, absolutely. There's an international organization –

Emerson: You say absolutely, I say absolutely, but he says that has, there's no connection [between Islam and terrorism].

Siegel: Well you know look, but Mr. Emerson, we're talking with Steven Emerson, by the way, who does great work in this field of studying terrorism, the simple fact is that Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi has a PhD in Islamic Studies. So I assume he knows a little more about Islam than does Barack Obama. He's a barbaric individual, he's another Adolph Hitler, he's the head of –

Emerson: [Crosstalk over word] the Mufti of Al-Azhar University, which is considered the leading institution, religious institution, on Islam in the world today.

Siegel: Alright, so let me just make the quick point –

Emerson: He said yesterday that ISIS's ideology is no different than Islam's ideology.

Siegel: That's my point is that if he's the expert, and he's the kaliph of ISIS, he's the head of ISIS, and he's going to say, if I asked him the question in an interview, he'd say, 'Well I'm just carrying out what the Quran tells me to carry out.' How does Barack Obama respond to that? Because this guy knows –

Emerson: Well [since when did] Barack Obama [become] an Islamic theologian. Look? I'm not saying that all Muslims carry out the ISIS ideology. Islam is what you make it out to be. OK? ...... you know, Islam is like any religion – it's an abstraction, it's how you interpret it. OK? And the fact of the matter is the interpretation of Islam is what counts. You cannot say that the interpretation of ISIS, by ISIS, or the interpretation by Hamas, by Islamic Jihad, by Boko Haram, by Al-Shabaab, you know or anything is more legitimate than the interpretation let's say by a courageous moderate like Zuhdi Jasser, who lives in Phoenix, who's never been invited to the White House for the past seven years.

Siegel: It's just stunning. We'll come right back. Stay right there. And glad you're energized, because we've got plenty to talk about. Mike Siegel here. Steven Emerson is with us. And we'll continue this conversation as the aftermath of the president's visit to the mosque in Baltimore. And he is Executive Director, Mr. Emerson, of the Investigative Project on Terrorism, and they do great work. Stay with us. More coming on the other side.

[Break]

14:25

Siegel: Welcome back in, folks. Good to have you with us. We get back to the conversation with Steven Emerson, who's here to talk about this issue of terrorism and the president's visit to the mosque in Baltimore, not surprising. Alright, let me ask you, Mr. Emerson, about the two Islamic Society of Baltimore officials back in –

Emerson: Two officials who appeared together in a –

Siegel: – Muhammad Jameel and, who's the President, and General Secretary Abid Husain. Tell us about these two guys.

Emerson: Well several things, first of all in 2014 they appeared together in a press conference organized by the Council on American-Islamic Relations during the Hamas war of genocide against Israel, where they launched 14,000 missiles in order to kill every Israeli. [But it was [t]hey [who] accused Israel of ' genocide'. And remember, the organization that organized this was CAIR, a Hamas front. The fact that they, that the officials of this mosque would participate in a conference, a press conference, organized by members of a Hamas front group you know suggests, raises the question whether the president would participate, would join in a, [or] would visit a church that actually affiliates itself with the Ku Klux Klan. Number two, the Islamic Society of Boston, of Baltimore, has been involved with terrorism over the last decade. The president itself was a registered agent of a non-profit group called the Islamic African Relief Agency, which was deemed to be an offshoot and an adjunct of Al-Qaeda. OK? And raising, he was a registered agent for raising money for Al-Qaeda. Now interestingly enough he wasn't prosecuted, which raises other questions. But he was still reelected after that. Now the fact is that he should have been deported and prosecuted, let alone, but in fact but he was reappointed as president. Nevertheless, there was another official, who's still there, who gave a, who has given several religious decrees, saying that homosexuality is not just illegal but they should be executed. This is the president who claims to be so you know generous and inclusive of people of different gender... affiliations. In fact, there was a counter-demonstration today, interestingly enough, by some women, some very courageous women. They appeared outside the mosque and they protested the fact that women have been consistently denied the ability to appear at the mosque together with the men. They had been confined to drab prayer spaces which have been closed to the, to men. They cannot be seen. They consistently protested. And they have been segregated. And this is old-time segregation that went out 100 years ago. OK? And the fact is that the president continued [to speak at the mosque] after knowing all this – the fact that they were connected to terrorism, the fact that they associated themselves with the Hamas front group, the fact that their own president was a registered agent of an Al-Qaeda front group, the fact that they segregated women like blacks were segregated 70 years ago. But you raise all of this, and the question then becomes – why would he select this mosque? And I found out today that FBI officials in Baltimore actually suggested to the Secret Service that he not visit this mosque, and they were overruled.

Siegel: Well you know that's, but you see you raise an important point. And you know I have less problems with the segregation of women, because Orthodox Judaism requires women sit in the balcony and the men sit down front during the high holy days. So –

Emerson: Yeah, but it's true, but if you look at, and I'm not defending that, because I believe that there shouldn't be any segregation, but if you look at the barriers you don't see total barriers where you can't see the women at all and where they're confined to drab spaces that are reserved basically for janitors.

Siegel: No, I agree with you, Steven. But that's, the bigger problem is this – in Saudi Arabia women walk behind men, women can't walk on the street alone, they need to have a family member with them, they can't drive cars –

Emerson: [Crosstalk over few words.]

Siegel: Let me just finish, they're limited in many different ways. You mentioned the Mullah Mohammed Omar. Under his alleged leadership with the Taliban, an Islamic fundamentalist country at that time, the genitalia of women were being destroyed by, and done so by the, with government policy. I mean but you don't ever hear anything about this stuff.

Emerson: Listen, [Obama] endorsed the stereotypical complaints of Islamic groups that complain that they only get portrayed as terrorism in Hollywood, that there's no positive portrayal in the media, when in fact if you do a Nexus search of stories about Islam, 70 percent of the stories about Islam are positive, that's number one. Number two, if you, he raises the issue of, quote, 'Islamophobia.' Now I admit that there's anti-Muslim racism, which we know is only 15 percent [plus] of the total, compared to you know 45 percent [and often much higher] of what is against Jews. However, Islamophobia is a term that was fabricated by Islamic groups for one purpose – to censor and smear anybody who raises the issue of radical Islam. And that's the reason why 14 San Bernardino innocent people were killed, because neighbors saw very suspicious figures in the garage prior to that attack and refused to contact the police because they didn't want to be accused of bigots. And that's a direct byproduct of the fact that Islamophobia is deterring people from reporting suspicious acts of Islamic terrorist suspects to the police or the FBI. And I can tell you from direct contact with the FBI, they can't get people in the mosque to talk to them. Why? Because they're told by the imams and the presidents of the mosques and the presidents of organizations – don't talk to the FBI, because they're only out to entrap you, that's the message, and they're only out to engage in a war against them. In fact, that goes against what the president said. The president said – there's no war against Islam, and we don't make that statement and nobody makes that statement. Well you know what? The very people that he invites to the White House, and we've documented this over and over on our website, www.investigativeproject.org, and I should make a plug that if somebody wants to get our newsletter, it's easier than going to the website, all they have to do is write in an email called stopterror@aol.com, and say please subscribe me, and we'll subscribe them to our email serve. And it's one of the most popular email serves on radical Islam, because we do investigations. We're not going to let people get away with lies. And this president, look I don't want to be disrespectful, but reading this speech was like reading a speech by the head of the Muslim Brotherhood. I was ashamed of what the president said today.

Siegel: There's no question about it. Please stay right there, Steve. We'll come right back and continue on this question of now that we see that this mosque is radical, now the question becomes – should we be infiltrating mosques with police? The same problem exists in Boston. The police there yawn about it. They don't want to be politically incorrect. Political correctness prevails over common sense protection of this country. More with Steven Emerson right after this.

[Break.]

27:22

Siegel: We're back. Good to have you with us folks as we get back into our conversation. And we are here with Steven Emerson and it is a pleasure to have him with us because he has vast knowledge about the subject of terrorism, but also fundamental common sense which gets us to –

Emerson: I want to read to you, if possible, two things here. I want to read to you what the president said about anti-Semitism and anti-Christianity, one paragraph, we, and it's just one of many that are so ignorant and so devoid of facts, 'We have to make sure that hate crimes are punished and the civil rights of all Americans are upheld. And just as faith leaders, including Muslims, must speak out when Christians are persecuted around the world –'[but the truth is that] Muslim leaders do not speak out, because Christians are persecuted more than any other minority in the Middle East to the point that they are a dwindling minority. The only place that Christians are growing are in Israel. They are being driven out of Iraq, driven out of Jordan, they don't exist in Saudi Arabia, they are driven out of Libya, they're being assassinated, they're being executed all over the Middle East. And I do not see Muslim leaders defending them. And then when he talks about anti-Semitism in France, listen to this, and then he says, 'And there are Jews who lived in places like France for centuries, who now feel obliged to leave because they feel themselves under assault, sometimes by Muslims.' Sometimes by Muslims? Ninety-percent, 95 percent of all the attacks on Jews in France, which is the highest it's reached in over 100, no not 100 years, since the Holocaust, have been carried out by Muslims. OK? That's a fact. They can't deny that.

Siegel: Yeah, there's no question about that.

Emerson: He's claiming that somehow this is just sometimes by Muslims, and he's attributing the fact that the anti-Semitism existed for centuries. No, no, no. Two million Jews went to their deaths in the Holocaust, you can't condemn the Muslims, however, the Mufti of Jerusalem, OK, joined Hitler, OK, and actually trained two divisions to join Hitler in the Holocaust. That's not something that he mentioned at all. And he was the leader of the Muslims. Again, I want to be very clear. I am not condemning all Muslims, because there are Muslims who are exceptionally courageous and they do not accept the hateful rhetoric that comes out of many of these groups. But for him to say that none of this rhetoric exists, or for him to say that the rhetoric coming from the U.S., the non-Muslim Americans, is causing all this violence against Americans, I want to read to you something else here, that was written by an imam, Imam Luqman . He's an actual Muslim, he's a Muslim Imam, he's an Islamist actually, trained by the Muslim Brotherhood. OK? He gave this speech in September, 2011, and I just want to read part of it, because it goes to the heart of what was being said by the president. I'm trying to pull it up right now. So you'll just have to bear with me for one second here, OK? OK, when he said, and I really apologize here, because I'm looking for it, I think I'll find it in a second here. It was a phenomenal speech. Again, he took on CAIR and he took on the whole issue of Islamophobia. Well I'm going to have to basically paragraph it, I mean paraphrase it. But what he said was – I'm not buying Islamophobia, because there are crimes and violence committed by Muslims, which justify the fear of American citizens, and for Islamophobia to be used by Muslim groups as a way of shielding themselves from accusations of terrorism is an absolute lie. This is what Imam Abu Luqman said. I have the speech here. Anybody wants it, we're going to post it on our website.

Siegel: Well it's –

Emerson: OK? He is an, he is somebody who is an Islamist, he's an imam. OK? Why wasn't he quoted by the president?

Siegel: Well –

Emerson: The quotes by the president, I can tell you, were talking points written by the Council on American-Islamic Relations and the Muslim Public Affairs Council, two groups that are Muslim Brotherhood -, that are Islamist, Muslim Brotherhood derived, and associated with radical Islamic groups that have defended suicide bombings, that have blamed Israel for 9/11, that believe that the United States is engaged in a war against Islam. He denied all of that. This is the first speech I believe that the president [ would have been guilty of committing] perjury if he was under oath.

Siegel: Well, the bottom line though to me is, Steven, that I just have thrown in the towel on Barack Obama. If he's not in his heart Islamic, he's certainly an apologist for radical Islam. And that's –

Emerson: Oh that is no doubt. You know I, look, I'm not gonna get into the issue of whether he's a Muslim or not, doesn't make a difference.

Siegel: Right.

Emerson: His policies are so pro-radic-, it's not just pro-Islam, because again, there's no such thing as being pro-Islam itself, because Islam means a lot, there are a lot of people who are Muslim who are not radical. OK? And they interpret Islam in a way that's consistent with our interpretation of Judaism or Christianity, which is the reformation that existed in both religions that excised those verses in the Quran, in the Bible, or in the New Testament, that said that you know you should kill the infidels. There hasn't been a reformation in Islam. And so the verses that say kill the infidel are still being enforced by tens-of-millions of Muslims. And if you want to say it's just a minority, so let's just say 10 percent of Muslims believe in that radical notion of killing infidels, well 10 percent of 1.6 [billion] , is how much? 160-million?

Siegel: Of 1.6-billion. Yeah, but even if it's, I've often said even if it's one-tenth of one percent, that's a million people, if it's a billion. So I mean it took 19 to take down the World Trade Center.

Emerson: And why is it that almost all of the groups in the United States, every single radic-, Islamic group, is derived from Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood? And they all engage in hateful rhetoric that supports Hamas, that blames Israel for genocide, that blames the United States for engaging in a war against Islam, why is it that they are not denouncing the rhetoric that the president claimed they're denouncing. The president lied today. He lied. OK? No one's holding him to account. And that's the problem. The media, I blame just as much, not as much as Obama, but they're in the tank for him. OK? And they could be holding him accountable just as much as they hold the Grand Wizard David Duke accountable.

Siegel: You know there's one point I admit you're right, completely. And it really is, see I don't blame Obama; he's got his point of view, it's pretty well known, it was in his book about how Israel got too much attention here and not the Palestinians, he wrote a book before he became president or even a state senator, but it's pretty obvious who he is. The real problem is the media won't say anything about it. They just, look, on a different subject, it's like The New York, none of The New York Times, The New York Times just endorsed Hillary Clinton and they won't talk about the FBI investigation of her criminal activity.

Emerson: Oh, The New York Times is, as Senator Cruz says, is an arm of the Democratic Party. And with Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who's head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee who said we need to invite Muslims to the president's State of the Union speech] was asked by Fox's Megan Kelly just last week, when she said, when Megan, when Debbie Wasserman Schultz Megan Kelly asked Debbie Wasserman Schultz, 'Why did you invite members of [ a group designated as un-indicted co-conspirators of Hamas]?'

Siegel: Yes, I remember that, yup.

Emerson: No answer [from Ms. Schultz].

Siegel: Yup. I remember that.

Emerson: And by the way, there were two members of Congress who are Muslims there, which sort of belies the notion that Muslims are the subject of vast bias, that they can't succeed in the United States.

Siegel: Yeah, Keith Ellison from Minnesota is one of them.

Emerson: Yes, and I have a quote by Keith Ellison we haven't released, which is so anti-Semitic I'm not going to repeat it on the air.

Siegel: Wow. How does he get away with it in Minnesota, an enlightened state?

Emerson: Well he, his speech was taped. We infiltrate these groups. And one of our missions is to [expose what say privately with what] they say publicly. I did a film, a documentary, three years ago, it was called 'The Grand Deception.' [www.granddeception.com]

Siegel: Alright, let me pick that up when we come back from the break. We've got a break, so –

Emerson: [Music over few words] and we showed what they said under, behind closed doors versus what they said publicly.

Siegel: Alright, we've got to break. We'll come right back, and pick it up on that point. Thanks for being with us.

[Break.]

41:20

Siegel: We're back with you, folks. Good to be in, as always. Very thought-provoking conversation with Steven Emerson, Investigative Project on Terrorism. And they do great work. You've got to check them out. Steven, let me if we can turn to the question that evolves, segues, from the president's visit. We know that that mosque, as you already pointed out, the people connected to it, who are radicals, problems connected to Hamas, CAIR involved, all of that. We know the Islamic Society of Boston is the same, has people connected with terrorism.

Emerson: Oh, absolutely, [crosstalk over few words] terrorists.

Siegel: But my question is this. We backed off on infiltrating mosques. Why don't we infiltrate any location that has the potential for a hot-bed of terrorism training, as mosques appear to be in some cases, why not do that? Why not go back to the aggressive program?

Emerson: Well first of all, there are several issues, one is the FBI is not allowed to simply just walk into a mosque and just do intelligence collection. They need a criminal predicate, meaning they need to be following someone who is a subject of some type of criminal investigation. That goes on, that's, those go, those rules were set by Attorney General Ed Levi, from administrations over 40 years ago. OK? That's number one. But number two, there was a program in New York, now that does apply to local law enforcement officials, there was a program in New York that was set up under Mayor, under the previous mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, that actually did infiltration into mosques that were believed to be radical, and I know there are plenty of them that are radical. And it was a very extensive program. And this [current]mayor, DeBlasio, agreed with the ACLU when he was sued, to totally disband the program, totally disband the program, number two, destroy the intelligence that was collected, and three, actually remove some of the academic papers on radicalization from the New York City police website. This is absolutely absurd, to the point that the lawyers who worked on the NYPD program are now [contemplating] resigning en masse, which is not well known.

Siegel: That's a very interesting point. So now we're not going to have the people there capable of doing that job basically, because they're going to [crosstalk over few words].

Emerson: No, under Bloomberg they stopped literally half-a-dozen major attacks that was stopped by local federal, local law enforcement officials, not federal officials, local officials. OK? And that type of capability has now been stripped. The same thing happened in Los Angeles, when the LAPD, in fact the head of, the counterintelligence, the counterterrorism official, Mike Downing, for the LAPD, actually made a statement on video, which we have, saying – "we must not demonize the Muslim Brotherhood." The L.A. sheriff, who is no longer there, Lee Baca, actually defended CAIR, saying they're not a [front for a ] terrorist group. He appointed members of CAIR to his own sheriff force in Los Angeles County, and he defended CAIR to Congress as a wonderful group and not a terrorist organization. So you see this is going on around the country.

Siegel: How in the world could that happen when the knowledge is there about what they do and how they behave, and being an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation? [Crosstalk.] When I interviewed their vice president, I had their vice president on this program one night, and I'll never forget, I asked him, 'Is it OK with you,' because I was in Jerusalem when this happened, 'that a Sbarro Pizza place gets blown up by a homicide bomber, 15 teenagers get killed, is that OK with you?'

Emerson: Oh by the way, in the hearing held yesterday, I just want to throw this in, of the 57 Americans killed by Hamas or the Palestinian Authority, not one, not one has been prosecuted, even though an office was set up, not one has been extradited [or indicted] , and I can tell you that two years ago, if you remember, when the three Israeli teens were murdered, one of them had dual American citizenship, a kid named Frankel, which gave the FBI jurisdiction to prosecute. The person, the Hamas official responsible for that operation was a man named Saleh Aruri, who lived in Turkey, under Turkey's protection, admitted on Al-Jazeera television that, quote, 'I was responsible.' So I brought the tape to the FBI, the Washington Field Office in Washington. And they are good guys. And they sent a cable to the Legal Attaché in the U.S. Embassy in Turkey, saying we want to initiate extradition hearings. What happened? Under Hillary Clinton, her response came back from the State Department Embassy section, saying – don't you dare even start extradition hearings; we need Turkey on our side.

Siegel: Well it's not Turkey, it's the guy. But let me just finish the point I was making, which is when the homicide bombing happened, 15 teenagers killed in the Sbarro Pizza place in Jerusalem –

Emerson: And who was responsible for that? The person living in Jordan, living free.

Siegel: Well yeah, but I asked the guy who's the Communication Vice President for CAIR, had him on the air from D.C., and I asked him – was that something that you would condemn? He proceeded to hang up on me. He wouldn't even answer the question.

Emerson: That's exactly it. You know what they'll say? If you ask them if they condemn Hamas, they say, 'We condemn terrorism.' OK? And ask them again, 'Do you condemn Hezbollah?' They say, 'We condemn,' but they don't define Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorism. That's the problem. And reporters won't continue the questioning, so they can basically corner them and conclude that they're not willing to condemn these groups as terrorist groups, because they don't believe they're terrorist groups.

Siegel: Well so if they don't believe they're terrorist groups, and they support Hamas financially, why is there even an issue about this?

Emerson: Well they don't support Hamas financially, not anymore. They did at one point. They don't do it now. They are public relations propaganda arms for Hamas, which is not considered material support.

Siegel: Well I, you know here's the other thing, Steven, I saw a piece in The Washington Post, by a liberal reporter, who basically said there's this rolling of the eyes when you hear about the fact that Muslim Brotherhood types are in the Obama administration, when we know, I mean I named six of them who have been connected to the Obama administration as advisors in Homeland Security.

Emerson: Only six? [Laughs.] Only? We're coming out with a report in two months showing that under PSD 11, Presidential Directive 11, which by the way, we've been suing the State Department to release, and they refused for the last four years, claiming it's classified, and it shouldn't be, it was a document –

Siegel: Well ask Hillary for it then.

Emerson: We have, and they basically, and what the push back has been what, we know what the document said. The document says – We are reversing policy and we are going to allow any Muslim Brotherhood official into the U.S., and as a result, 200 major Muslim Brother officials have been allowed into the U.S., including those that have called for jihad against the United States in the last two years.

Siegel: Well you know as I said, you could ask Hillary, if it's classified, she has access to it.

Emerson: She appointed [de facto] members of the Muslim Brotherhood to her administration, which is coming out in my documentary coming out in –

Siegel: Well maybe you can get her private server. Or her iPad, whatever.

Emerson: Or you know well I'm sure the Russians, the Chinese and others have it already. Maybe I should go to them.

Siegel: That's probably a better idea. Alright so now, and so here she is running for president, and I mean we're not talking about that per se, we're not talking about politics. But this country doesn't look at reality. I mean anybody who had done what she did, even if it was just negligent and not intentional behavior, with classified material, it should be a no-brainer they can't run for president.

Emerson: Well that is, as Giuliani pointed out, that is a violation of law. You don't need intent.

Siegel: Right.

Emerson: If you are passing classified information in an unclassified server that is a violation of law.

Siegel: You just need negligence, and that's what it is.

Emerson: By the way, she's been asking for an interview by the FBI. You know why they won't grant it to her at this point? Because they're interviewing lower level officials among her coterie because they're looking to turn somebody into an informant to make the case against her. And I believe they will.

Siegel: Yeah, I think they will. I don't know whether they'll prosecute, but the bottom –

Emerson: No, they won't.

Siegel: I'm just making the point –

Emerson: Remember, the FBI makes referrals; the U.S. Attorney's Office makes indictments.

Siegel: The only way that Obama might require that they do the prosecution is if she's doing poorly in the primaries and he doesn't want to have his legacy besmirched with all the resignations of FBI agents, which will happen, including James Comey. If they don't prosecute, he's going to resign and so will a bunch of other agents.

Emerson: That's an interesting question whether he would resign. I'm not so sure. You know why? I was, I though he [crosstalk over few words].

Siegel: I've got to close the show, but let me just tell you, Joseph DiGenova, U.S. Attorney, a good friend of his, said he would resign. Chris Christie, running for president, had been a U.S. Attorney, and worked with him, he said he would resign. And about three or four other people said the other thing (UI word) Comey. He almost did resign once in the Bush administration. He's a guy –

Emerson: Yeah, but remember the press conference after San Bernardino. [Attorney General] Loretta Lynch babysat him to make sure he didn't make [ "misstatements." ].

Siegel: Exactly, exactly. Steven, thank you for the time. It's a late hour. We'll call you again, and I certainly appreciate it, sir.

Emerson: You're very welcome.

Siegel: Have a good evening and thanks for being with us. Mike Siegel here. Be good to yourself and the world and the world will be good to you.

51:57